As a further setup thing if I delete the site to site ipsec tunnel I can then create the L2TP with IPSEC, but I cannot alter the Phase 1 or Phase 2 settings, nor see what they are. If I wanted to use the inbuild Android client it has no easy control over these settings, and I cant set them. All a little useless.

Think I have found the biggest dissapointing bit of the system, the whole VPN setup seems not quite there, OK for a home or small business user logging onto their network but not for multiple users - unless I am missing something somewhere.

Definatly needs some more control, ACLS that are VPN connection aware etc.

As an addition to the above if I now try to create the site to site IPSEC tunnel it tells me as below...

This IPsec VPN policy has the same IP addresses settings for peer routers on the VPN tunnel as the existing one, the Phase-1 settings should be the same.

Except I have no clue what the phase one settings actually are wehn created from an L2TP connection.

I would have expected that the IPSEC settings be configured in a separate menu, and then be applied where required. My comments still stand that the VPN just isnt cutting it and needs some urgent work. Devs need to take an urgent look at VPN as a whole.

I also dont expect to go into menus and see what passwords and preshared keys are in plain text - most odd.