Help me to choose budget friendly router/switch/ap for a small mountain resort
Help me to choose budget friendly router/switch/ap for a small mountain resort
Hey guys,
We own a small resort and we already got UniFi installed in here. (UDMP + PoE Switch + Unifi 6 Lite/LR)
And another resort, that's really close to us, asked me to make them an internet. Meaning purchase + install.
I mostly work with UniFi, but now I'm looking for TP-LINK as budget friendly option. They gonna have 100mb/s for now, planning to have higher speed in future.
They have 3 separate cottage with 10 people max capacity each and a buidling (hotel)
Hotel have 3 floors and guests lives only on floor #2 and #3. Each floor has 10 rooms with around 30 capacity on each floor.
I'm looking for a router with 1Gb/s WAN and 1Gb/s LAN and a switch with at least 2 ports with Gb/s.
We're planning to connect each switch uing Cat 5E outdoor, they're not far away from each other.
Each bulding gonna have it's own switch. Something like:
Cottage #1 = 1 PoE switch + 1 AP
Cottage #2 = 1 PoE switch + 1 AP
Cottage #3 = 1 PoE switch + 1 AP
Hotel = 1 PoE switch + 6 AP
Owner told me, they just need a Wi-FI for guests (no camera, no PC, nothing else).
I want something with controller, so I can manage them remotely if possible.
Even if not remotely managable, something that can be managed from PC (controller). I don't want to setup each AP separately (standalone)
Just want to create a Wi-Fi with a good roaming experince.
What's your suggestions ?
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I think the omada controller and omada EAP can meet your needs, you can use the controller like OC200 to manage these devices, and set one SSID for all EAPs.
Certainly you can also choose the software controller, they are same, as for the specific model of them, you can refer to this link to select.
https://www.tp-link.com/omada-sdn/product-list/
Another thing I found very handy is that you can go straight to this link and tailor a solution for yourself, which has helped me a lot before.
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@Boriy Hello, I think it really highly depends on the budget which one want to spend. For your description, there is not much to be said except that you probably are restricted to devices with 100Mbit interface and there is a ton switches which are very, very cheap. Considering current pricing, it is not really much difference in costs to setup 1Gbit network, as well as the user experience should be way better if you use eap2xx series (wifi5) or even 6xx series with wifi6 and better coverage, also, keep in mind that you already can order eap610-outdoor which was lately released.
Considering we are here on tp-link forum, the cheapest 1Gbit poe+ switch from tp-link is I guess TL-SG105PE with 4 poe+ ports, can not be added to omada. But keep in mind, all eap devices which I ordered except wall version have poe injector, check product pages to find out which devices have one included as I am not sure about older devices like eap1xx series. As you said 100Mbit, I assume budget is tight for this project and you can save money on buying poe switches. Of course it is way more comfortable if you do have one switch powering all devices.
Which AP's you do want and how many is also a good question as well how do you prefer to manage the setup. As example, eap wall ap's (except latest 6xx series) can not mesh and do not support fast roaming, they are meant for a scenario where you say each room has its own connection, but at the end of the day you probably do want your users to roam and you might manage instead ssid's and isolation for each room. It really depends on the owner and what the owner wants, eap610outdoor costs 5 times more than eap110outdoor and almost 3 times of eap225outdoor. Here again the budget plays major role.
You say there are 10 rooms, considering lets say that wall versions are quite expensive if you buy for all 10 rooms, placing some eap2xx/eap6xx with fast roaming would probably be not only cheaper but would probably provide better user experience too.
Building up 100Mbit network with 100Mbit devices means you apply quite old technology. 100Mbit is as example still enough for most cpe series connecting point to point over far distances which is not a use case here, but I would not recommend to build up 100Mbit networks in 2022.
Also about cat5 cables, I do not know, maybe you get cat5 cables much cheaper, better use use 100% cooper cat7/cat8 to be secure for the future, especially because mostly when you put cables into the building you do not want to replace them later and it should work for many years, outdoor devices should also either be connected with outdoor cable or be protected from sun/dirt/animals biting it/..., especially when you say in mountains, you probably would want cable which will not be destroyed by sun nor to stop working when it is -30° or even colder. As example, checking amazon for 100% cooper outdoor cat7 cables brings one from hbdigital, but thats all I can find in my search.
Some do suggest CCA (Copper Clad Aluminium) cables for outdoor usage, but better do not use CCA cables for wiring the network, they are very cheap compared to 100% cooper but my only advice is actually to stay away from CCA cables.
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I'm a bit puzzled why you would want a POE switch in each cottage ?
if its for the AP's a POE injector can help.
without the switches in the cottages
each cottage gets a EAP345 V3 (WIFI6 is too expensive and the EAP's can handle a cottage ) they also come with an POE injector
in the hotel put a E7206 as router
an OC200 as controller
and then for the hotel EAP620 or 610 ( too save a bit )
TL-SG2210MP (as your main switch in the hotel )
- connect 6 Hotel AP's here + uplink to other switch + E7206
TL-SG2210P (as the switch to run the cottages on )
- 3 cottages AP's + OC200 + ( other end of the uplink ) => if the length to the cottages is too long or doesn't work well, disable POE on ports to the cottages and use the injectors
if you really need the switch in the cottages , you can get TL-SG2008 ( or P with 4 POE ports) in the cottages , if you do that you don't need the 2210P in the hotel , you could also go with the 2008 ( even without POE ) if you move the OC200 to the 2210MP to have the POE there. (since you want to the OC200 to run with POE to be able to use the backup)
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@Boriy if you need a a switch in each room, it means probably that you want to have more than 1 port per cottage, how many do you need? Are you restricted in room or is there a secure place where guests/nobody has access? I would believe you already know where you would place those device, I would probably centralize it in a way that router and all switches are in a rack connected with short 0.15-0.25 to a patch panel from which it goes directly to the rooms.
1. build a network cabinet to save on money cabinet or you can buy something like this:
2. I guess for your project 24 port switch would be enough, you can buy/extend it later at any time but if you have enough budget, go better for 48port switch. Check omada compatibilty list and see which fits your needs: https://www.tp-link.com/us/omada_compatibility_list/
3. I strongly would recommend not to put any switch into cottages, instead buy a patch panel for your network cabinet, something like this:
In pic is modular one, meaning that you can use keystone modules which brings additional advantages like using it for hdmi, dp, usb3, ... (there are keystone modules for a lot of things, including external antennas). Witch patch panel you can also switch easily without moving any cable.
4. As you mention budget, if you have raspberry pi3 or 4 or any similar device running arm64/aarch64, probably the cheapest great working which I tested is Rock Pi S (forum software does not allow the link, telling me illegal link: https://wiki.radxa.com/RockpiS), I bought it back then for $ 10 per device without PoE-HATs, those I bought extra later. If you do not have any around, then buying oc200 should be recommended, especially if it is for business where one wants a solid housing and industrial standards.
5. Router is really optional as you will get one anyway from a provider, I guess in your case er605 is more than enough and for the cheap price really worth it, however, you did not say how you will be connected to internet, as example if you connect over mobile connection like LTE, then I highly recommend buying really good outdoor antennas with as short as possible cables leading to your server room where your network cabinet is, just a decent antenna and decent cable will cost you more than twice of the price of er605.
6. Like I said, better do not place any switches into cottages/rooms or anywhere outside your network cabinet, this is something that one does do, you also do not want your guests to take one device with them when they leave. Instead, buy network dose for each room, my advice is to use doubles, even if you plan to use only one:
Those network doses are connected to your patch panel (or to the switch directly if you do not have patch panel). In that case nobody of your guests will be able to steal your hardware or to kill your switches by spitting coffee/watter over your switch or whatever else can happen.
For network dose's you should not use cat5 cables, cat6/7/8 are meant for it, and here again, take only solid 100% cooper cables for connecting network dose/s. On amazon you can find different cables from bigtec, hbdigital and some other vendors, they all should be good, bigtec is cheapest of them for my location.
As you see, for every detail you can buy something cheaper or more expensive, like previously said, it really depends on the budget and I believe hotel owner would actually like to have it centralized in a network cabinet instead of cheapest possible variation of cat5 cables together with some switches accessable physically by guests. You should present those things to the one who pays, as for few things (centralizing your wired connection to network cabinet) it really is worth it and makes maintenance simple and easy without a salad of cables.
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Hey guys, thank you for all the responses. I'm adding some information to make this cleaner and better to get a whole picture.
The reason, why I wanted to put small PoE switch to each cottage, is because it's not close to each other.
They have Cottage 1,2,3 and hotel.
Distance:
Cottage 1 to 2 = 100ft (30 meter)
Cottage 2 to 3 = 240ft (73 meter)
Cottage 3 to hotel = 120feet (36meter)
To clarify, each cottage can accommodate max 10 people.
Here's what if looks like :
1st picture cottage
2nd picture hotel
I was simply thinking about
1 Router + unmanaged small PoE switch in each cottage and hotel + AP in each place.
I will ask the owner, if he wants to get a better networking equipment, if he agrees, that I assume, I'll get:
1 router + 4 managed switch with Gigabite ports for uplink + 9 AP + Omada controller.
Do I really need to get Omada controller hardware, if free omada software available ? Are they do the same thing. I just need to configure network only 1 time, I'm not gonna change everything constantly.
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@Boriy ok, this makes the picture clearer, I would still have a question about what the owner would preffer, connecting cotages wireless or with cables, mainly because indeed, you would spend too much on cables if you connect cottages wired, the longest distance is over 100m which is problematic for poe, meaning that it would require additional device to extend the power, however, the costs for cables/bandwidth is too high, for same/less money you can connect it via wifi6, but in my view optimal and price/overall best is if you connect 3 cottages to main hotel with fibre connection, best if it is 10Gbit+
Fibre is very thin and was meant actually to connect buildings, with 10Gbit you have enough bandwidht. Of course you could have 10Gbit with cat7 or even 40Gbit with cat8, but from my experience it is better to use fibre, not always cheaper, cat7/cat6 can be 1000m long and your distance would be no issue, just poe can be an issue, normally with fibre you also do not transmit power. I think you need to know your costs for this decision, as that is I guess deciding point, especially if you go with fibre, then your switches must have fibre connection too (or additional hardware).
All in all, I do believe that cheapest solution would be connecting them simple over mesh and in cottages, from mesh to wired, this would work nicely, you must only ensure that you have for each ap ability to connect to at least 2 root AP's, otherwise you might run into troubles, but with the amount of planned access points you would be fine.
Thanks for explaining the reason for switches and wireless, it does mean hotel owner does not want to spend too much. What I would suggest to him is probably to first connect cottages with 1 ap, in hotel you should have at least two which are wired (act as root ap). Probably you should go for eap610-outdoor but I cant recommend it until I've tested it and they are still not available despite being shipped. This scenario would work with eap225 too, I just think that it is much cheaper and better if you do it with wifi6, especially if you do not wire them, this might spare hotel owner to buy cables and wire cottages. If on some point hotel owner decides to wire them, then you simply connect those AP's to your hotel, but main point is that you will probably have no need to do it. At the same time, placing them wisely at highest points of cottages can cover huge space, you will probably not need that many ap's like you planned if you use wifi6. But again, there is probably nobody who can report experience with eap610-outdoor (except tplink of course), it should be available at any comming week (at least for EU), around € 180 per device.
Wherever you place those switches, I still highly recommend that device is not accessable physically by guest and to use network dose's in their rooms. Hotels normally use also very specific tv system and device and all of it is centrally managed, if this is the case for the hotel in question, then you already know where you would like to put your network devices.
About controller you are correct, you do not have to buy oc200, any already existing server in a hotel could actually be omada controller too as long as it is 64bit linux/windows. But keep in mind that oc200 has industrial standards, like casing, using raspberry pi's in commercial environment is not a good idea, like previously said, any existing server can act as omada controller.
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@btx
Yes, there is a place in attic, that no guests can access to it.
I wonder why we need to use higher cable categories ?
I believe Cat 5E outdoor, will do it's job and it's not so expensive. Here it cost just 0.50$ for a meter (3foot). So for 100meter (328foot) just 50$.
I was thinking having 1 router in hotel and connect small unmanaged PoE switches with each other, using Cat 5E outdoor, since they're not far from each other, considering each cottage will have own PoE switch.
I believe connecting with wire, would be better, since wireless uplink might have some problems expesially in distance.
In our house we use Deco M5, we have 9 piece of them, all of them connected wirelessly. Can we use that same approach but with wire ?
I mean, put Deco M5 or better in each cottage and connect them wired backhaul. What do you think about it ?
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if you can lay a wire , lay a wire , your AP's and your throughput, stability will thank you.
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@Boriy you do not have to use higher class cables, cat5e will be fine for gigabit and all devices for normal consumer are certified with cat5, most are not certified for cat6 and cat7, mainly I believe with restricted budget is cat5 better than wireless, but I personally would not connect houses with cat5e in 2022, one/two cables bandwidht would be quickly a bottleneck if houses are not connected directly to the switch (meaning cable goes to one house first,from there to second. Make sure you connect them both directly to the switch, not switch over switch. Also ensure that your cat5 are poe capable. Cat5 would be $ 50, cat 7 like this (https://www.amazon.de/Digital-Netzwerkkabel-Verlegekabel-Halogenfrei-RoHS-compliant/dp/B01BYK32L8/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=hb+digital+cat+7&qid=1645828638&sprefix=hb+digital+ca%2Caps%2C129&sr=8-3) would be $ 78,70. Honestly, I would go for cat7 which is $ 38,7 more expensive, later, changing one cat5 cable to higher standard would cost hunderds of dollars. Point on cables is that they are always cheap compared to total costs of the project, but cables are one of most important parts in a network (it is actually your network).
Cable decision should be probably done by the owner if the difference is just $ 38, where you locally might be able to get it even cheaper. Why not cat6, because they are the same price, most cat6 are even more expensive for me locally as there are not many offers, but cat6 would be probably enough too, last time when I bought cat6, 500m costed me around $ 300 (7-8 years ago), today prices are not much different.
Before making a decision, you can make your own tests with different class cables to see if there is any difference in your setup. As whatever I do say, you will not run a datacenter there and if it should be cheap as possible but work best as possible, then you will be good with cat5e too, just make sure poe works and there are not performance issues.
About Deco M5 for guests, this is really, really bad idea. You either have to hide it and spend money on fixing it or otherwise your guests will thank you by taking those decos with them. Also, deco is more meant for home usage, you can and do build up a mesh network with eap devices, you do not need deco for mesh and it will work better than deco's. EAP's can be mounted and go very well through walls, meaning that they can be properly installed too without a risk to be stolen or lets say much less risk. Especially wide spread home use devices like deco can be interesting to your guests to take home where one uses same deco's.
Yes, cable is always better than radio, it is faster, lower ping, not prone to change performance due to weather conditions and so on ... I preffer cable mainly because there is no electronic smog caused and cables do not affect my health.
Maybe I expressed my suggestion wrongly. Putting on each cottage eap610 would connect them all with 1Gbit over 5Ghz, the distance beetwen them is not big and your devices should be all with something like -60 or better connected. That was just suggestion to connect them over mesh where I am quite sure it would satisfy your needs, but if not and if there is smallest issue, you can go for wiring them. This suggestion was simply to see if there is a need to lay cables because you said you probably would not like to do it.
So far I can see, you will lay cables, which is the best what you can do, just make sure you lay them all from switch to house without bottlenecks.
For hardware, buy at least one 8 port managed switch, you want to have managed switch because you want to separate the networks for your management and administration of devices (like eap) and your hotel's guests which have no access at all to eap's and other devices. You might also want that each room has actually no access to other rooms devices to make your guests network more secure. Last time I checked, such managed non poe switch costed around $ 20.
As you do mention deco and that you have experience and that you are happy, it sounds to me like if you maybe are not sure if you can do the same with eap's, yes you can, you just can't use deco's and eap's together in a mesh.
Instead of having 9 decos, having indoors in each cottage eap6xx, outdoors eap600-outdoor would cover quite a huge area. If buildings are far away (hunderds or miles away) and one needs to connect it wireless, then cpe devices are used, for your distance, I believe eap600-outdoor would be good enough, 70m on other side is a distance which maybe is further away then it should be, here is lan cable really usefull. I connected flats over air at the disance of around 38 meter, with eap225outdoor I get -52 - -56 and full speed of ISP's max 250Mbit is always reached. This is the point where I said you could see if you can spare money on cables and instead buying more AP's, extending coverage for the costs of stability with lan cables. Going for wireless bridge is cheap, then you test it and if anything is not working as expected, you can lay cables.
As you see my opinion differs, I find both solutions good, personally I would always wire houses whatever then happens in them and I tend to wire houses with fibre cable or cat7 cables, price difference to cat5 is marginal in comparisson to the price one once will want to replace those cat5 with higher standard.
You should not spare and buy the cheapest switch, you need to have a good switch if this network will be on high load, with good I mean just dont buy the cheapest despite that it might work well.
As for the question if you can do it with deco, sure, you can but I would advice against using deco's in business/public environments, especially as it is popular device and now or later one of your guests would take it as a souvenir.
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@btx
I'm still waiting for owners response, meanwhile, it's a good suggestion to start with a few devices and see how it goes.
I've still got some questions.
If I'm gonna use Omada AP with Windows controller, do I also need Omada Router or it could be any other routers ?
In my location, I couldn't find any Omada routers, only home based routers. if I couldn't find them, it is still okay to use any other routers ?
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