@Philbert 

 

Thanks for the affirmation and the link to your other post; it was very informative.

 

It looks like I need my two AP situated on opposite sides of the central chimney (as you described as being your case too). While my sheetrock + decorative wood paneling attenuate the signal and reduce speeds, the chimney is the real killer. As soon as I get to the other side, not surprisingly, signal drops off quickly.

 

Can you offer any tips or maybe link to a guide (or another informative post) for optimizing two AP? I would prefer to keep them with the same SSID and let the device roam (or user force roam by toggling the wifi on and off). I currently use inssider, wifi analyzer and the free version of netspot to analyze my signal strengths and congestion. What is an okay amount of overlap between two AP? For example, if I am using inssider and my target AP for the current area has a strong signal, what should the strength of the other AP's signal be such that it wont cause issues? I imagine I just keep reducing transmittance power until the secondary AP is weakened to a certain dBM level in the primary AP's zone that it won't cause issues..? 

 

 

Hi @PBGBBB2020,

 

What transmit power are you using now on the EAP?  I would use the custom scale and set the 5.8GHz power to ~16 to 20, and the 2.4GHz power to ~12 to 18.  Given your chimney, most devices should naturally roam depending on which side of the chimney you are on.  You could experiment with lowering the power more, but it will impact speeds as well so it's a balance.

 

You could also try what I do.  I have a long, rectangular, two-story house (long and skinny).  I have an EAP at each end of the house.  One ceiling mounted on the second floor facing down, and one on a table on the first floor facing up.

 

I would use the same SSIDs (on per radio 2.4 & 5.8) on each so that roaming is automatic.  I would hard set each EAP radio to a different channel.

 

For my mobile data devices (phones, ipads, laptops, etc) I use only 5.8GHz and typically see speeds from ~200 to 400 Mbit throughout the house -- which is more than adequate.

 

-Jonathan

@PBGBBB2020 

 

If you are feeling plush then spend the 50 $£ on an OC200 and let it control the 2x APs for you, you can manually set this if you wish but it wont be as easy.

 

SSID just keep it the same for both

Transmit strength just set to19/23 (the defaults), there will be no advantage to doing this manually if honest

 

Channels,

2.4Ghz you will be using 40 mhz so go for 1 and 11 or 3 and 13

5Ghz you will be using 80mhz channel so go 36 and 44  

Both the above channels are non overlapping so you wont have to do anything fancy regarding interference :)

 

Roaming will be your issue, you will need to set the client to roam at a certain level via the driver or settings.. i would set this for -70db.  Individual APs wont force a roam without a controller

 

Being honest, just get a OC200 or setup SDN and let it do the hard work for you :)

 

 

@Philbert 

 

Thanks, Guys.

 

I did consider getting the controller but I think my wife will kill me if I spend more money right now. Some questions:

 

- What does the controller actually do? lol... will it automatically manage the APs for optimal performance? 

- I did install the software controller; will it do the same thing assuming the attached PC is always on?

- Can it manage a non TP-link AP? Currently I have a EAP225 and a netgear ex6100 AP.

@PBGBBB2020 

 

I did consider getting the controller but I think my wife will kill me if I spend more money right now.

Yeah.. know the feeling 

 

Some questions:

 

- What does the controller actually do? lol... will it automatically manage the APs for optimal performance?   It literally watches the airspace, devices, clients and APs to change settings on the fly automatically as required.  Will also flag up interference and problems to you easier..  Its just better for admin overall.

- I did install the software controller; will it do the same thing assuming the attached PC is always on?   It will do the same thing yes, did you adopt the Access Point?   Also you need to keep this running, when you adopt the AP it wont work right if controller is off.   Always recommend the OC200 for that reason

- Can it manage a non TP-link AP? Currently I have a EAP225 and a netgear ex6100 AP.   Apologies forgot it was 2x different WiFi devices, no it will only control the 225.   got in my mind you had 2x 225s

Thanks for the clarifications. Is it worth setting up the software controller for one AP for the time being? Maybe when get some expenses under control I will purchase the OC200 and another AP.

@PBGBBB2020 

 

As you are running 2x seperate devices, i would say leave the controller for the minite and just configure the devices with same details and 2 different channels as mentioned before.

 

The controller is deffo the best option for you going forward and will solve most the roaming issues you are going to have forcing the devices to move between the APs, however this will do for you at the moment.

 

When you get some $$ look at a 2nd EAP225 and a controller.  Disable the wifi on the netgear and let the 2x EAP225s controlled by the OC200 do the business.  They will roam devices, load balance, auto channel correct and manage themselves without you needing to do anything.   Its the best way to go about this if honest.

 

@Philbert 

@JSchnee21 

 

Thanks for all the input, guys. I will probably invest in another Omada and the controller soon. I know wifi 6e is coming but I will be in no rush to upgrade. As long as I can get a stable 2.4 and 5ghz network going through the house, I will be happy. 

 

A couple of observations so far after implimenting all we have discussed:

 

1) Sometimes the EAP connection drops out. One minute I can get max speeds, the next it is weak; like 10% of max speeds. This is without moving locations.

 

2) Sometimes the EAP signal starts out strong during a speed test (both internet and iperf), say  around 200mbps, but then gradually drops to about 50 mbps by the end of the test

 

3) Sometimes latency drastically increases. Typical for speedtest.net for a fairly local server is 15-18ms. Sometimes I find it randomly jumps to 50+ ms when conencted through the EAP225. My gut says the issue isn't on the WAN server side but its more likely and issue with communication to the AP.

 

 

Any ideas on the cause of these issues and recommendations for mitigating them?

 

Just a side note: I probably have 20 or so devices (most iot) connected at a time. Its hard to tell looking at my list of ocnnected devices which are through the EAP, through the Netgear Extender, and which are actually hardwired in. The lists of "connect devices" for my two AP and the router seem incomplete and have some overlap.

 

 

 

 

@Philbert 

 

I did notice Rx and Tx errors and Tx dropped packets. not sure if it explains drop offs, if its even a concern, or if there is a solution.

 

@PBGBBB2020 

 

Hopefully some answers for you :)

 

1) Sometimes the EAP connection drops out. One minute I can get max speeds, the next it is weak; like 10% of max speeds. This is without moving locations.

 

Likely one of the following is happening..

1. The signal is getting interference from somewhere which is causing this to drop the speed..

2. Its attempting to ROAM to the other device, this will be an issue for you.  As you are not using a controller the handover wont be seamless and you will "drop" connection for a period until it re-establishes with the other AP.   You may not see it actually dropping the connection, it will just appear as a slow blip but that is what is happening.  When you have 2x EAP225s and a controller it can roam without disconnecting and this should appear more seamless

3. You are being scheduled... more in the later answers :)

 

2) Sometimes the EAP signal starts out strong during a speed test (both internet and iperf), say  around 200mbps, but then gradually drops to about 50 mbps by the end of the test

That is common, at first you have clean air and it will fly through... as you pump more and more data it will start to slow...  it will eventually level off and that is your "saturated throughput".   The difference can be large, also scheduling will have an effect.. again below :)

 

3) Sometimes latency drastically increases. Typical for speedtest.net for a fairly local server is 15-18ms. Sometimes I find it randomly jumps to 50+ ms when conencted through the EAP225. My gut says the issue isn't on the WAN server side but its more likely and issue with communication to the AP.

OK so latency in WiFi is a common thing and you are never going to irradicate it, however more $$$ will help :)

 

Im basic terms WiFi 5 (802.11AC or earlier) is a single connection only, in that I mean only one device can talk to the AP at one time.  Therefore if you have 20 devices all wanting airtime the AP will start scheduling this out.  In laymens terms you are scheduled a time slot to talk..   eg  slot 1    slot  20   slot 40   slot 60  etc etc.. while the others are talking, you are not..   therefore the latency will increase for that device. 

 

It only gets worse as you add slower or older devices, say you have devices connected at 300mbps and your laptop connected at 1200mbps.   The slower device could take 3 times as many slots on the schedule to send something as your laptop will.  Therefore you see a 4x increase in latency, basically waiting on that slow thing.

There are a few ways to fix that.

 

AirTime Fairness :  (If you have a controller) it can say each person is allowed 1 slot for x time.. no excuses.   if you dont get fully sent in the time slot you wait till next one.   This is a more even way to distrubute resources and allocate time.  However it can be wasteful if a full slot of time is used for some smart lightbulb to send 1 packet..    It does however work well in busy environments to stablise connections.

 

MU-MIMO  - basically use mulitple aerials and signals to talk at once to more than one device (usually 2 or 3)..   decreases each device throughput but increases capacity.  The EAP225 has this, its not groundbreaking effective but its a help!

 

As I said  $$ can fix this, WiFi 6 does have a good solution but it requires the client and AP to be compatible and is $$$

 

OFDMA  :  OK this is cool.. orthogonal frequency division multiple access  -  basically in simple terms it means the AP can stack multiple connections in one "slot"..   say we have a lightbulb sending just one packet, why waste that entire slot for that?   fill the other free slot time with another devices packets and rock on (these are known as RU - Resource Units).    Think about it like filling the delivery trunk with everyones stuff and not just yours before sending it off, better overall

 

WiFi 6E - basically 6Ghz spectrum.. untouched by 99% of people so flood that with all you can, its untouched land .. this is hot stuff coming out this year but it is going to be PRICEY!!! 

 

Honestly.. you are going to get stuff like this in WiFi.. drops, latency and strangeness are part of the game.  

Airtime fairness, MU-MIMO and a controller are your best option to address this at present but you wont ever irridicate it.   Sadly just accept that and live with it, if you try to achieve 100% via wifi all the time you will lose your mind over this.   From 20 years installing WiFi devices, it great for tablets and laptops, I have seen thousands of these and use it 24/7 but if you have time/latency sensitive stuff cable it in.  I play online games in my free time, outside mobile apps or slow browser games wouldnt touch WiFi when gaming, and I do this for a living